Ibogaine Uncovered Podcast

Can the psychedelic ibogaine really get to the root of trauma? In Ibogaine Uncovered, author and journalist Amanda Siebert explores the impact of this powerful medicine including what prompts people to seek it out and how their lives are often transformed through the teachings they receive.

Guests take an honest look at their healing journey, unpacking their lived experiences with substance use disorder, complex trauma, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, and grief.

Expert guests also provide listeners with wisdom for their own healing journey. Join Siebert for powerful conversations that highlight the value of preparation, integration, and community in the world of ibogaine healing.

Dr. Dalibor Sames: Why We Need Ibogaine Analogues

Dr. Dalibor Sames is a professor of chemistry at Columbia University, where he runs an independent research program dedicated to studying and developing drugs that induce neuroplasticity.

After developing what he describes as “aesthetic admiration” for the molecular structure of ibogaine, Dr. Sames began studying ibogaine and iboga alkaloids, and soon after went on to develop ibogaine analogues as novel therapeutics.

He is working to develop these drugs further as the co-founder of two start-up pharmaceutical companies, Gilgamesh Pharmaceuticals (which recently signed a deal to collaborate with AbbVie) and KURES.

What we discuss:

— Dr. Sames’ aesthetic admiration for ibogaine
— “New chemical entities:” Why create analogs to ibogaine? Do we need them?
— The unique molecular structure of ibogaine
— Ibogaine’s mechanism of action: how it compares to other psychedelics
— How small changes in the structure of ibogaine lead to significant differences in its pharmacology
— Oxa-ibogaine: potential safety and efficacy
— Ibogaine as a teacher and gate opener
— Collaborating with big pharma: Is ‘the trip’ necessary?

Why it’s important:

For as long as psychedelic drugs have re-entered the mainstream, the question has been posed: why spend time and money developing alternatives to psychedelics when we can spend that time and money studying the ones we already use? (It’s a question the host of our show has asked herself many times.)

In this episode, Dr. Dalibor Sames makes a great case for developing ibogaine analogues, especially with regard to the cardiac risks associated with the drug. Dr. Sames also describes ibogaine in a way we haven’t heard before on this show, detailing the many complexities of the molecule and explaining how a simple change to its structure (such as swapping its nitrogen indole for oxygen) can have a massive impact on its effects.

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Gary Katz: Ibogaine for Sex Addiction and Betrayal Trauma

Gary Katz is a certified sex addiction therapist and a certified partner trauma therapist, as well as the founder for the Center for Intimacy Recovery in New York. He has been trained in a variety of modalities including sensorimotor psychotherapy and EMDR. Prior to opening the Center for Intimacy Recovery, Gary worked in education for more than 20 years. He is also an ordained rabbi.

Gary joins us on to discuss sex addiction, betrayal trauma, and the potential that ibogaine has to heal people on both ends of the spectrum.

What we discuss:

— What is sex addiction?
— What it’s like to live with compulsive sexual behavior
— ‘Rock Bottom’ when you’re struggling with sex addiction
— Gary’s personal experience with ibogaine
— What makes ibogaine interesting from a therapist’s perspective?
— Defining betrayal trauma
—Working with betrayal trauma: how it differs from working with people dealing with compulsive sexual behavior
— How ibogaine helped a group of women suffering from betrayal trauma
— Treatment options: Standard of care vs. ibogaine

Why it’s important:

This is the first episode of Ibogaine Uncovered in which we discuss a very real (and incredibly misunderstood) maladaptive coping mechanism: compulsive sexual behavior (also known as sex addiction). While this topic may not get as much coverage as substance or alcohol use disorder, an estimated 3-6% of Americans struggle with it everyday.

Gary Katz explains what the spectrum of compulsive sexual behavior can look like, how compulsive sexual behavior can lead to betrayal trauma, and the role ibogaine can play in helping both those with compulsive sexual behaviors and those who have experienced betrayal.



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Kevin Franciotti: Can You Use Psychedelics in Recovery?

Kevin Franciotti is a co-founder and the board president of Psychedelics in Recovery (PIR), a fellowship of people in 12-step programs who also have an interest in psychedelics as an aid to their recovery.

Kevin has been involved in drug policy advocacy, mental health training and education, and a provider of therapeutic services for 16 years.

What we discuss:

— How PIR differs from traditional recovery programs
— The origins of PIR
— Who can join PIR?
— Kevin’s personal connection to PIR
— Where the idea of using psychedelics in conjunction with recovery originated
— What does a PIR meeting look like?Do members of PIR take part in AA/NA?
— Common criticisms of PIR
— Does using psychedelics in recovery impact one’s risk for relapse?
— The story of PIR’s membership growth
— Why has the idea of using psychedelics in recovery become so popular?
— Is PIR harm reduction?
— How PIR fits in with other organizations in the recovery and psychedelics spaces

Why it’s important:

For some, the idea of using psychedelics while recovering from an addiction to another substance or behavior might seem counterintuitive.

Kevin Franciotti makes the case for Psychedelics in Recovery (both the fellowship and the concept), using his own journey as a backdrop. Kevin is also realistic about the fellowship: while PIR certainly fits the definition of harm reduction, using psychedelics in recovery does not come without the risk of relapse.

The dramatic growth of PIR during and after the Covid-19 pandemic illustrates that although it is beyond time to embrace alternatives to traditional recovery programs, many people still see incredible value in the 12-step framework.



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Tommy Aceto: Turning Pain into Passion

Tommy Aceto is a former US Navy Seal and intelligence officer, a father, a breakthrough therapies advocate, a writer and director, a life coach and retreat coordinator, and veteran mental health chief officer at the Give to Give Foundation.

Tommy served as a US Navy Seal for 16 years, deploying to Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and the Pacific Islands, and eventually becoming a basic underwater demolition Seal instructor where he developed training curriculums for close quarter combat, combat diving, and more.

Tommy credits ibogaine for helping him overcome PTSD, traumatic brain injury and alcoholism and is committed to spreading the word about psychedelic medicine to others in need.

What we discuss:

— Who was Tommy Aceto before ibogaine?

— The mental health treatment options available to veterans after their service

— What it’s like to witness transformation in other vets as a retreat coordinator and psychedelic integration coach

— Other valuable tools that have been a part of Tommy’s healing journey

— The inspiration behind Tommy’s Instagram handle, flowstatefrogman

— The value of movement, sport, and physical challenges in the context of mental health

— Unpacking the statement, “be careful of your belief systems because they are your biggest limiting factor”

— What it means to “take your pain and turn it into passion,” and how Tommy is pursuing his passion through storytelling

— Tommy’s message to politicians who insist on denying the power of psychedelics, and the work he’s doing for veterans in Washington, DC

Why it’s important:

I first caught wind of Tommy’s profound experience with ibogaine when he testified in front of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commision in September of 2023. His story of resilience was one I knew we had to feature on Ibogaine Uncovered.

Tommy’s transition from traumatized veteran to proud breakthrough therapies advocate and mental health ally is a true testament to the power of ibogaine – a drug that remains illegal in the United States despite mounting evidence that it could improve the lives of millions of Americans who suffer from opioid dependence, alcoholism, PTSD, TBI, and more.

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Anthony Esposito and Amber Antonelli: How Intense is Iboga Really?

Anthony Esposito and Amber Antonelli are the co-founders of Awaken Your Soul, an iboga retreat center in Costa Rica. Both Anthony and Amber are Bwiti initiates and iboga providers who have been working with the medicine for quite some time – over a decade for Anthony and about eight years for Amber. Amber also serves as chief of the village at the center, which is situated on nearly 100 acres of lush jungle.

What we discuss:

— The reputation of iboga as intense: is this a well-earned reputation, or is there more to it?

— Different factors that influence the intensity of an iboga experience: dose, set and setting, facilitation, and resistance

— The importance of being trauma-informed – and what that really means

— The energy of iboga: masculine, feminine, or both?

— The shifting spiritual awareness of people who are seeking out iboga

— Who makes a good candidate for an iboga retreat?

— How the iboga experience differs from the ibogaine experience (how the medicine is administered, set and setting, music, and more)

— How to deal with resistance when it arises in guests

— Lessons from the medicine, from Gabon to Costa Rica

Why it’s important:

Iboga is often described as “intense” – this is why many refer to it as the “Mount Everest” of psychedelics. As Anthony and Amber explain, while there are certainly elements of an iboga experience that can be quite intense, there are several factors that can impact that intensity.

We hear that when it comes to iboga, a small dose goes a long way, and that feelings of resistance can actually turn up the intensity dial significantly.

Anthony and Amber dive into some of the key differences between iboga and ibogaine, not just in the way that they are administered, but also when it comes to why someone may seek out one over the other.

They hone in on the importance of meeting people where they are at, wherever that might be on their journey – even if it’s deep in a state of resistance – and share vulnerable moments from their own path as Bwiti initiates and iboga providers.

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Joshua White: Peer Support in Psychedelic Therapy

Joshua White is a lawyer, peer support advocate, psychedelic researcher, and the founder and executive director of Fireside Project. He believes in the power of peer support and the role of support lines like Fireside Project as foundational components of an equitable mental health ecosystem.

Joshua joins Ibogaine Uncovered to discuss the role and value of non-clinical support in the psychedelic space, and to share about his recent ibogaine experience at Beond.

What we discuss:

— How Joshua’s experience with the Zendo Project and Safe and Sound’s Talk Line for Parents informed the creation of Fireside Project

— What volunteer experience taught him about the value of peer support

— Is the emphasis on therapists in the psychedelic space problematic?

— The role of non-clinical support (including coaches and peer support) in the psychedelic space

— Essential ingredients for building a safe psychedelic container, from a peer’s perspective

— Key questions to ask when looking for a psychedelic facilitator, why it’s important to be thorough when making your selection

— How practitioners can maintain healthy relationships with their clients/peers

— The intersection of medicalization and spirituality within the ibogaine experience: is it possible to have a transformative experience in a hospital bed?

— The role of peer support in making psychedelic treatment more accessible, particularly to BIPOC and vulnerable populations

—  What the future of ibogaine treatment could look like if scaled

Why it’s important:

As more people look to psychedelic medicines to improve their health and well-being, it’s clear that a model that requires two therapists to sit with every individual receiving psychedelic therapy is not scalable.

Joshua underscores the need for more non-clinical support in the psychedelic realm, including coaches and peer supporters like the ones at Fireside Project. Not only is peer support more accessible, he suggests it may also offer a psychedelic journeyer more of what they need before and after a transformative experience, especially depending on a peer’s familiarity with psychedelics.

As Josh experienced during his time at Beond, having the right support, whether clinical or not, helps create a safe container for a psychedelic journey – whether that journey takes place in the Amazon, or in a hospital bed at an ibogaine treatment center in Cancun.

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W. Bryan Hubbard: Lessons from Kentucky’s Ibogaine Initiative

Bryan Hubbard is a lawyer and the former chairman and executive director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission (KOAAC). Tasked with allocating an $842-million settlement from opioid manufacturers after the courts found that the products they sold contributed to thousands of deaths in the state, Bryan and other members of the commission were appointed by Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron in June 2022.

In just 18 months, Bryan’s work put ibogaine in the spotlight.

After learning about the psychedelic’s anti-addictive properties in the summer of 2022, he brought the idea of spending a portion of the settlement funds on ibogaine research to the AG, and in May 2023 they announced the commission’s intention to allocate $42 million to a public-private research partnership with a focus on ibogaine for substance use disorder.

He was asked to step down from the role in December 2023.

What we discuss:

— How Bryan’s previous work as a public attorney prepared him for the work he went on to do for the KOAAC

— How he learned about ibogaine and his motivations for taking it the commission, even when it was clear there would be a lot of political pushback

— How political opposition impacted the commission’s interest in ibogaine

— Why the ibogaine initiative is no longer on the table in Kentucky

— Responding to claims that the ibogaine initiative was a “misuse of funds” and “corporate R&D”

— The effect that public hearings had on people who were either ambivalent or opposed to ibogaine research

— The lack of efficacy of existing treatments

— Reconciling one’s faith in God, the hope that psychedelics present, and what we’ve been programmed to believe about drugs (in the church and beyond)

— Next steps for Bryan: interest from other states in ibogaine

Why it’s important:

In the short time that Bryan held the position of chairman and executive director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission, he was able to present ibogaine, a relatively obscure psychedelic substance, as a potential treatment for a crisis that has impacted the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans – and people paid attention.

While in the end, it seems unlikely the commission will be moving forward with the proposal, Bryan’s championing of ibogaine was successful in creating a groundswell of support for an alternative treatment option in a part of the country not exactly known for being progressive.

What’s more, as a result of Bryan’s work, many who had firmly placed themselves in the anti-ibogaine camp were so moved by what they heard at public hearings that they’re motivated to see the initiative through. Although Bryan has moved on from his role in Kentucky, other states have now expressed interest in picking up where he left off.

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Amber Capone: The Ibogaine Integration of a Navy SEAL

Amber Capone is the CEO and co-founder at Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS). Four years ago, she walked away from a successful career in real estate to serve in these roles, determined to improve the life of her family and others who were suffering after her husband Marcus underwent a powerful transformation with the help of ibogaine.

Marcus Capone – who intended to join us but couldn’t make it – is an entrepreneur & veteran Navy SEAL who was medically retired from active duty in 2013 after 13 years of service in Special Operations, including 6 combat tours at Seal Team 10 and Seal Team 6. Today he’s the chairman and co-founder of VETS.

VETS is a non-profit organization founded by Marcus and Amber, intent on ending the veteran suicide epidemic by providing resources, research, and advocacy for U.S. military veterans seeking psychedelic assisted therapy for traumatic brain injury, PTSD, and other health conditions.

What we discuss:

— The challenges associated with Marcus’ retirement and return to civilian life, including struggles with TBI, PTSD, depression, anger and substance use, and the impact that had on Amber’s role as a wife and mother

— The specific challenges that veterans face as they try to navigate treatment options

— The role that stigma plays among veterans and how it can often prevent them from seeking treatment

— How Marcus and Amber learned about ibogaine, and the point of complete desperation they were at when they found it

— How a lack of preparedness for treatment helped Amber and Marcus develop programming at VETS to prevent them from experiencing the same thing

— The shift that Marcus experienced after ibogaine

— Talking about psychedelic treatment with their children

Amber’s struggle to reconcile ibogaine’s healing ability with her faith in God

— The support options offered by VETS, and VETS involvement in a recent Stanford study looking at ibogaine featuring Dr. Nolan Williams

— Recent advancements in support for improved veteran care

Why it’s important:

Amber and her husband Marcus have been advocating for access to psychedelic assisted therapy, particularly ibogaine treatment, since 2018 and have quickly become the faces of the movement. Their story and their work are prime examples of how, when the situation feels absolutely hopeless, a single profound psychedelic experience can be a complete game-changer – and in turn, how that game-changing experience often leads to an undeniable sense that it must be shared with others who have experienced the same hopelessness.

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Dr. Nolan Williams: Can Ibogaine Treat Traumatic Brain Injury?

Dr. Nolan Williams is an Associate Professor within the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences and the Director of the Stanford Brain Stimulation Lab. He is triple board-certified in general neurology, general psychiatry, as well as behavioral neurology and neuropsychiatry.

Dr. Williams joins Ibogaine Uncovered to discuss his recently published study, Magnesium–ibogaine therapy in veterans with traumatic brain injuries. Published in Nature Medicine, it evaluates 30 Special Ops veterans with predominantly mild TBI who each independently scheduled themselves for ibogaine treatment at a center in Mexico, where they also engaged in activities like breathwork and yoga, and spoke with therapists and coaches.

Don’t read too much into the word “mild” here – as you’ll hear from Dr. Williams, people suffering from TBI are more often than not also dealing with other health conditions including PTSD, depression, anxiety, substance use, and suicidality. Participants in the study were referred by Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS), a non-profit organization dedicated to ending veteran suicide.

What we discuss:

— Dr. Williams’ first impression of ibogaine: how he went from being skeptical to calling it “the most sophisticated pharmacological agent in the world”

— Why it was important for Dr. Williams to study ibogaine treatment on Special Ops veterans

— The changes Dr. Williams and his team witnessed in participants after they underwent ibogaine treatment

— The role of magnesium in the protocol and what his team was able to show as it relates to heart health during treatment

— What we know about the dreamlike state of consciousness facilitated by ibogaine

— Ibogaine as a “dirty drug” and the analogy of the modern key

— What Dr. Williams meant when he said ibogaine led to“a Benjamin-Buttoning of the brain,” and the implications of such a change for people with TBI and PTSD

— The study’s limitations

— Which other populations could potentially benefit from ibogaine treatment?

— The role of research in affecting drug policy

Why it’s important:

The first-of-its-kind neuroimaging study found that ibogaine could effectively treat TBI and PTSD in Special Ops veterans while improving cognitive function. Ibogaine treatment also reduced the veterans’ average rating on a disability assessment scale.

Before treatment, the average rating of participants in the study indicated mild to moderate disability. A month later, their ratings indicated no disability. Remarkably, 88% experienced a reduction in PTSD symptoms, 87% experienced a reduction in depression symptoms, and 81% experienced a reduction in anxiety, while suicidal ideation decreased from 47% to 7% one month following treatment.

All this to say, this new study led by Dr. Williams and conducted by his team at Stanford is playing a role in taking ibogaine out of the category of obscure psychedelic and placing it into the category of potential breakthrough therapy.

The numbers speak for themselves, as does the mainstream media coverage of the publication. As Dr. Williams points out, research still has much to reveal about this powerful plant medicine, but for now, this study indicates that ibogaine could be a treatment option for a condition from which many people fail to find relief.

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Ben “Doc” Askins: From Straight-Edge to Psychedelic

Ben “Doc” Askins is a physician assistant, US army captain, author and podcast host. He has two decades of experience practicing and teaching wilderness, tactical, and expeditionary medicine in the military.

As a civilian, he is certified with the Multidisciplinary Association on Psychedelic Studies in MDMA-assisted therapy, and is a Psychiatric Physician Assistant offering ketamine assisted therapy in Kentucky.

Doc is a National Outdoor Leadership school alum, a veteran of the Global War on Terrorism, and has postgraduate training in Neuropsychiatry and Genomics with a Masters in Divinity.

Doc’s book, The Anti-Hero’s Journey: The Zero with a Thousand Faces, is described as a “warped war memoir about the way to attain enlightenment” (think of it as an integration therapy guide in the form of his life story). You might remember Doc from episode 22 – he was featured in our recap of the Kentucky Summit on Breakthrough Therapies for Opioid Use Disorder.

What we discuss:

— Doc’s presence at the Kentucky Summit
— Why Doc thinks the idea of investing $42 million in ibogaine research in KY is “a terrible idea”
— A clinician’s perspective on ibogaine
— How Doc went from a straight-edge kid and member of the DARE club to a proponent of psychedelic assisted therapy
— America’s shifting perception of psychedelics
— Psychedelic assisted therapy for veterans
— The challenges of treating people suffering from suicidality
— Doc’s recommendations for post-treatment integration
— Reflecting on Doc’s book, The Anti-Hero’s Journey

Why it’s important:

With his strict Christian upbringing and army background, Doc might not be the first person you’d expect to be an advocate of breakthrough psychedelic therapies – but it’s precisely that background that qualifies him to speak to the ongoing crisis.

As a Kentuckian with close personal connections to both the opioid and suicide crises, an active duty member of the Army National Guard, and a physician assistant (among many other things – he’s the first to call his background ‘eclectic’),

Doc’s perspective on the state’s interest in funding ibogaine research is both well-informed and unique. He’s the first person I’ve heard call the plan “a terrible idea,” but not for the reason you might think.

Speaking to his experience working in ketamine-assisted therapy, Doc offers insight into the kind of support a person suffering from suicidality requires, and explains why the window after a psychedelic experience is a critical time for people who have been facing treatment-resistant depression.

Doc’s story is a testament to how tragedy can change our life’s course in an instant, and proof that even with years of “just say no” indoctrination, there’s hope that even the staunchly opposed could change their minds about psychedelic medicines like ibogaine.

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